Gun Control
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Added: 2008-04-24 10:33:49 EST
From: Bwana
29 comments so far.
You tell me Krypo. Shoot first ask questions later isn't a good policy even if the shooter is only using a Taser.
zeus, the problem with stun guns is that all to often the authorities are using them as a weapon of 'first resort' rather than trying to diffuse the situation by actually talking to the aggressor. A recent case in the US had a security guard in a hospital shock a man holding a new born baby. The story is the man was making no threats to anyone, just wanting to take his baby to another hospital because he felt that one wasn't caring for the child properly.
The Brit police (who are STILL mainly unarmed) are to be issued stun guns as standard. Amnesty International has criticised the move... WTF???? I can't understand Amnesty International. If you don't threaten a policeman, you don't get 'shocked'!! How hard can it be?
Actually I grew up in the inner city. You couldn't go to my old neighborhood nowadays without use of an armored vehicle. Inner city people suck. Real.
krypto, take it you're some kind of rural carrot cruncher then!
Most of the guns kill people in the inner city. So who cares?
US CODE 18 TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 44 > § 922 (g) It shall be unlawful for any person—
(1) who has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;
(2) who is a fugitive from justice;
(3) who is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802));
(4) who has been adjudicated as a mental defective or who has been committed to a mental institution;
(5) who, being an alien—
(A) is illegally or unlawfully in the United States; or
(B) except as provided in subsection (y)(2), has been admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa (as that term is defined in section 101(a)(26) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101 (a)(26)));
(6) who has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions;
(7) who, having been a citizen of the United States, has renounced his citizenship;
(8) who is subject to a court order that—
(A) was issued after a hearing of which such person received actual notice, and at which such person had an opportunity to participate;
(B) restrains such person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner of such person or child of such intimate partner or person, or engaging in other conduct that would place an intimate partner in reasonable fear of bodily injury to the partner or child; and
(C)
(i) includes a finding that such person represents a credible threat to the physical safety of such intimate partner or child; or
(ii) by its terms explicitly prohibits the use, attempted use, or threatened use of physical force against such intimate partner or child that would reasonably be expected to cause bodily injury; or
(9) who has been convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence,
to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce, or possess any firearm (truncated)
Well, let's not arm that "mentality" with a gun. Seems simple. Illegalizing unregistered handguns makes sense. If you have to hide the actions you do with your gun, then chances are you're not using it in self-defense. If making a gun owner take a little responsibility with his rights is asking too much, move to another country. I'm ashamed as an american that we even need to argue about this nonsense.
I hate to tell you this, luckyman and dookie, but the same kind of "facts" are used by the gun control advocates. It's all just what spin you want to put on what fact.
I'll restate what I said earlier: If you removed gun related murders from the statistics of Washington DC, it still has the highest murder rate per capita in the Nation. Why?
It's not the weapon of choice, it's the mentality of those using it.
One thing is clear... ...Bwana enjoys a good fact hunt!! :\
I've read through all that stuff fom Bwana. Jesus, it's like one of those irrational religious rants you get from evangelicals. "Facts" devoid of context or arguement. Like conspiracy theory. Of course, his name tells us everything. "Bwana" - a self-proclaimed racist and white supremacist. Now get back to the woods, Bwana, while we all click "remove it".
If you dont know what Bwana means, it's what the white masters in Africa used to insist their slaves and servants call them. It means, master, or lord.
Fact: "If I shoot off my penis with a handgun, I'd become a female gunowner and prevent myself from being raped. If I moved from Europe to the US, I'd have less of a chance of being murdered. All statistics are lies, except mine."
If Bwana is a conservative, then your problems extend beyond misleading data, startrooper. You should look carefully at a party where this sort of expression is disseminated amongst the throngs as fact, and is encouraged in many cases. We both see logical fallacies all the time on both sides, but this type of propaganda is dangerous to feeble minds.
Careful dookie - Europe probably does have more people killed in the last 70 years than the US. But, he is misleading us with the data. Note that he says these data include numbers of people killed by government actions. WWII and all that crap in the Eastern countries adds up. There's also well over twice as many people in Europe as in the US, but I think the major contributor is the government actions. Shame shame Bwana. Please, don't give conservatives a worse name by using misleading data; and back it up with a source. Also, could you keep your comments to one block? It makes reading them easier.
Fact: while I find the gun control debate less annoying than all the political bullshit, I wouldn't be disappointed at all to have the drivel removed from snaps. Repeating the same arguements on multiple posts is rather boring and just clutters up the LVT29.
Fact: Bwana is full of shit on many points. One being that handgun crime increased 40% in England after passing a gun ban. Of course it's going to rise for a while, dumbass, eventually those people with guns will be jailed and fewer of them will be on the street to perpetrate crimes. Did you expect everything to change in a day?
Fact: Bullshit on the 16x murder rate comparison between US and Europe. More people die in the US from handguns than in any other country. The US has better murder conviction rates over the last 70 years. The US actually pays for detectives, courts, and attorneys...and gun registration.
I never said an armed populace was bad. I said a populace armed with concealed handguns is dangerous, especially unregistered. Go collect your check from the NRA and buy yourself some archie comics, psycho.
Bwana, you seem to be loaded with "facts", care to cite your sources?
What happened to fact 5 ??? I guess somebody shot it!!! You see what your guns do now!!! For shame...
Wow, i was joking about the NRA thing but i guess you really are. So question, do you get paid by the gun purchased or by the bullet fired?
6. Fact: The United States has experienced far fewer TOTAL MURDERS than Europe does over the last 70 years. In trying to claim that gun-free Europe is more peaceful than America, gun control advocates routinely ignore the overwhelming number of murders that have been committed in Europe.
* Over the last 70 years, Europe has averaged about 400,000 murders per year, when one includes the murders committed by governments against mostly unarmed people.17 That murder rate is about 16 times higher than the murder rate in the U.S.18
* Why hasn't the United States experienced this kind of government oppression? Many reasons could be cited, but the Founding Fathers indicated that an armed populace was the best way of preventing official brutality. Consider the words of James Madison in Federalist 46:
Let a regular army, fully equal to the resources of the country, be formed; and let it be entirely at the devotion of the federal government; still it would not be going too far to say, that the State governments, with the people on their side, would be able to repel the danger . . . a militia amounting to near half a million of citizens with arms in their hands.19
4. Fact: British authorities routinely underreport crime statistics. Comparing statistics between different nations can be quite difficult since foreign officials frequently use different standards in compiling crime statistics.
* The British media has remained quite critical of authorities there for "fiddling" with crime data. Consider some of the headlines in their papers: "Crime figures a sham, say police,"9 "Police are accused of fiddling crime data,"10 and "Police figures under-record offences by 20 percent."11
* British police have also criticized the system because of the "widespread manipulation" of crime data:
a. "Officers said that pressure to convince the public that police were winning the fight against crime had resulted in a long list of ruses to 'massage' statistics."12
b. Sgt. Mike Bennett says officers have become increasingly frustrated with the practice of manipulating statistics. "The crime figures are meaningless," he said. "Police everywhere know exactly what is going on."13
c. According to The Electronic Telegraph, "Officers said the recorded level of crime bore no resemblance to the actual amount of crime being committed."14
* Underreporting crime data: "One former Scotland Yard officer told The Telegraph of a series of tricks that rendered crime figures 'a complete sham.' A classic example, he said, was where a series of homes in a block flats were burgled and were regularly recorded as one crime. Another involved pickpocketing, which was not recorded as a crime unless the victim had actually seen the item being stolen."15
* Underreporting murder data: British crime reporting tactics keep murder rates artificially low. "Suppose that three men kill a woman during an argument outside a bar. They are arrested for murder, but because of problems with identification (the main witness is dead), charges are eventually dropped. In American crime statistics, the event
3. Fact: British citizens are now more likely to become a victim of crime than are people in the United States:
* In 1998, a study conducted jointly by statisticians from the U.S. Department of Justice and the University of Cambridge in England found that most crime is now worse in England than in the United States.
* "You are more likely to be mugged in England than in the United States," stated the Reuters news agency in summarizing the study. "The rate of robbery is now 1.4 times higher in England and Wales than in the United States, and the British burglary rate is nearly double America's."6 The murder rate in the United States is reportedly higher than in England, but according to the DOJ study, "the difference between the [murder rates in the] two countries has narrowed over the past 16 years."7
* The United Nations confirmed these results in 2000 when it reported that the crime rate in England is higher than the crime rates of 16 other industrialized nations, including the United States.8
1. Fact: The murder rates in many nations (such as England) were ALREADY LOW BEFORE enacting gun control. Thus, their restrictive laws cannot be credited with lowering their crime rates.1
2. Fact: Gun control has done nothing to keep crime rates from rising in many of the nations that have imposed severe firearms restrictions.
* Australia: Readers of the USA Today newspaper discovered in 2002 that, "Since Australia's 1996 laws banning most guns and making it a crime to use a gun defensively, armed robberies rose by 51%, unarmed robberies by 37%, assaults by 24% and kidnappings by 43%. While murders fell by 3%, manslaughter rose by 16%."2
* Canada: After enacting stringent gun control laws in 1991 and 1995, Canada has not made its citizens any safer. "The contrast between the criminal violence rates in the United States and in Canada is dramatic," says Canadian criminologist Gary Mauser in 2003. "Over the past decade, the rate of violent crime in Canada has increased while in the United States the violent crime rate has plummeted." 3
* England: According to the BBC News, handgun crime in the United Kingdom rose by 40% in the two years after it passed its draconian gun ban in 1997.4
* Japan: One newspaper headline says it all: Police say "Crime rising in Japan, while arrests at record low."5
If gun violence was removed from the statistics the USA would still have a higher violent crime rate than Western Europe, Canada, Australia and Japan. Why is that?
It's not about the tool, it's about the mentality of those who use it. Do you blame cars for drunk driving?
The USA needs to address it's violent nature and not continue to blame guns.
Guns don't kill people, rappers do! I saw it in a documentary on BBC 2.
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"A populace armed with concealed handguns is dangerous"?
"Major crime fell dramatically in states which have legalized the carrying of concealed handguns, according to a comprehensive new study at the University of Chicago."
http://www.ncpa.org/pi/crime/pdcrm/pdcrm20.htm
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